Road bike sizing & fit for beginners - Part 2

This is a continuation of my previous article on bike fit - Road bike sizing & fit for beginners - Part 1.  We are going to go deeper into the rabbit hole here.


BIKE GEOMETRY AND TYPES - UNDERSTANDING STACK AND REACH

Krish from The Bike Affair (Hyderabad) provided some useful feedback on this article.    He pointed out that many beginner riders are not very flexible.   In such cases, when a rider is between 2 sizes, he may find one size to be more comfortable than another, even allowing for the fact that both sizes can be set up for the same fit coordinate.    They do enough bike fits and sales that this is a useful data point.

To understand why this is so, we need to understand bike geometry.    Take this:

 This is a list of all the dimension and angles that make up a bicycle.      The bike sizing is typically and traditionally based on the seat tube length, but because of differences in all the various other dimensions, the size itself is only a very approximate guide to the bike's fit range.   Luckily, for the purposes of figuring out fit, you can safely ignore most of these other measurements and just focus on 2 elements, stack and reach.

If you remember, we talked about the 2 aspects of fit:  where to put your saddle and where to put your bars.    The position of your saddle relative to the crank is what it is, and can be set up identically across bicycles of the same genre (eg road bikes).      If your bike's seat tube tube is steeper, you will slide the saddle a little further back.   If your bike's seat tube is shallower, you can slide the saddle forwards.   So you can achieve the same saddle position regardless of bike size or geometry (within reason), in terms of how high above and how far behind the cranks it sits.    So for the purposes of this article, that setting can be ignored when comparing across bikes.

That leaves us with where to position the handlebars - how far forwards and how high.   That, in turn, will depend upon the geometry of the bike, more specifically, the stack and reach, as shown in the photo below.
  .

Pic credit:   Slowtwich (see link at the bottom)

Different bikes, even of the same size, can also vary in geometry and size.    Some bikes, designed for racing, tend to be "long and low", and put the rider in an aggressive position - these have a low stack and high reach.      Other bikes, designed for more endurance riding, tend to "short and tall", and put the rider in a more upright position - these have a high stack and shorter reach.

People who ride in a more upright position typically need a higher stack for a given reach.    However, if you try to fit them on a race oriented bike, getting both dimensions to match may be a challenge.   Eg, if you get the reach correct, you might find the handlebars to be too low and need a lot of spacers to get them in the correct position.    On the other hand, if you get a bike size which puts the handlebars at the correct height, they end up being very far away.

 As an example:
- A size 56 race-oriented Specialized Venge has a stack of 555mm and a reach of 398mm
- A size 56 endurance-oriented Trek Domane has a stack of 591 and a reach of 377.

So even though the 2 bikes are the same, when you go from a size 56 Domane to a size 56 Venge, the starting point of the handlebars is going to be massive 36mm lower and 22mm further.    That's an enormous difference, considering that most fit changes typically tend to be in the range of 10-20mm in each axis.    So can you get these 2 bikes to have the same fit coordinates?

In order to get a Venge that has the same reach as size 56 Domane, you will need to go down 3 sizes to a size 49!!   And in that case, the stack drops all the way down to 504mm - which is much, much lower than a Domane and there is no way you can make that up with spacers. 

Alternatively, if you want to get the Venge to have the same stack as the Domane, you will need to go 2 sizes bigger, to a size 61.   And in this case, your reach extends to a massive 411mm - almost 34mm longer than that of the Domane.  Correcting this will require a very short stem, which will adversely affect the handling of your bike and make it very twitchy.

So even though the 2 bikes are the same size, it can be very difficult to get the same fit coordinates on both of them - if one fits very well, you are going to be at the extreme range of fit on the other.   


IMPLICATION FOR BIKE BUYERS

As we saw above, not all bikes will provide the ideal range along both stack and reach.     In some cases, if you get the stack correct, the reach may be too short or (more likely for beginners), too long.    Alternatively, if you get the reach to the correct length, the stack will end up being too high.    You may be able to fudge together something for a particular size, but you definitely will be on the extreme end of a bike's fit range and will have limited possibilities for adjusting fit later.

So it is useful to take a step back and consider what TYPE of bike you are looking at.   A beginner rider who is not very flexible and who is struggling with bikes that are putting him in an aggressive position should consider an endurance geometry, as opposed to a race geometry.   These bikes are designed for a slightly more upright, comfortable position that normal people - as opposed to racing snakes - can hold for several hours with ease.

And don't think that endurance bikes don't go fast - for an identical body positioning and with identical components, the endurance bike will give you pretty much the same sort of speeds as a race bike.    The term just refers to the bike's geometry and design, and not to its performance.

So when going to try out bikes, try out both a race-specific geometry and an endurance-specific geometry (sometimes called sportive geometry).      You might find the latter works better for you.   And if so, instead of a Specialized Venge, consider a Roubaix.   Instead of a Cannondale SuperSix, consider a Synapse.    Instead of a Giant TCR, consider a Defy.   Instead of a Trek Madone, consider a Domane.    And so on.   Virtually every bike brand has a racer-style geometry and an endurance-style geometry. 

Getting the more aggressive bike because it looks cool or because your favorite pro rider rides in the Tour is a recipe for a miserable cycling experience.   Remember - if you are uncomfortable on the bike, you will not be able to go fast, nor will you want to ride the bike.    A good fitting bike is the first step towards having a great cycling experience.


ADDITIONAL READING

Here is the first of a very comprehensive set of articles on understanding stack and reach, as it pertains to bike sizing and as a way of comparing different bikes:
Stack and Reach Primer 

It pertains to triathlon bikes, but the same principles apply to road bikes as well (instead of pad height and reach, just think handlebar height and stem length)

Questions?   Feel free to ask on BikesZone Reborn.  

   

Road bike sizing & fit for beginners Part 1

Unlike other types of bicycles, road bikes are a fair bit more sensitive to proper size and fit - get it right and the machine is something you can ride comfortably for hours at a stretch.    Get it wrong, and you end up with aching back, taint, hands, shoulders, neck and/or knees.

The bad news is that getting a decent fit or the correct size, atleast in India, is still not a given.   The Good Guys, like Wheelsport, Crankmeister, Pro Bikers, The Bike Affair and others, will make sure they fit you properly.   But too many bikes shops just have you straddle the bike and if there is enough gap between your boys (or your lady parts) and the top tube, they call it good to go.

To be fair, that's not an India-specific issue.    I know several people in the US who have had this issue.   When I bought my first road bike from Trek in Bangkok, they sold me a size 60 (I have very long legs for my height) - since then, I have discovered that I ride a size 56!      But be that as it may, getting a poorly fitting bike results in a very poor cycling experience.     Another way to think of it is that quite a few comfort issues, including saddle discomfort, back and neck issues and hand/arm aches, all directly originate from an improperly fitted bike.

So how do you make sure your bike fits properly?   Get a proper fit done by a qualified fitter.   Depending on how often you ride and how detailed a fit you want, this can work out to be fairly expensive - but it is the single biggest improvement you can make in your riding, worth far more than groupset upgrades, frame upgrades or wheel upgrades.  

That said, getting fitted prior to purchase is not often a realistic possibility for most people.     The purpose of this article is to help beginners get a bike whose fit is approximately correct - good enough to get by and with enough freedom to make small corrections to really nail it down in future.

Do note - this fit guide is for road bikes only, not for hybrids or MTBs.


BIKE FIT VS BIKE SIZE

When you sit on the bike, there are 3 contact points - your feet on the pedals, your butt on the saddle and your hands on the handlebars.     Bike fit refers to the positioning of these 3 elements.      At present, if you are starting out, let's assume you are going to be riding with sneakers and not clipless pedals - so your feet have some flexibility and the pedals are where the pedals are:  not much you can do about it.   That removes 1 of the 3 elements and leaves you with 2 elements that you can adjust:
- How high is your saddle and what is its position on a forwards-backwards axis
- How high and how far forwards is your handlebar.

A properly fit road bike is one where these 2 contact points are set correctly, to provide you a comfortable and bio-mechanically sound position from which you can exert power on the pedals.

How do you achieve this?   You achieve this by sliding the seatpost up and down, by moving the saddle forwards and backwards on the rails, by moving the handlebars up and down on the steerer and by using a stem of a different length and angle.

Now, the range of variation offered in each of these dimensions is typically far more than the different in dimensions of adjacently-sized bikes.    In other words, the difference in going up or down one size on a bike is much smaller than the range of adjustment offered by changing the length of the stem, or by moving the seatpost up/down or whatever.

So what this means is that any given rider is quite likely going to be able to get the correct fit out of more than 1 bike size.    Eg, i ride a size 56 bike with a 120mm stem and 20mm spacers - I can get the same fit on a size 58 bike with a 90-100mm stem and maybe 5mm spacers.   I even made that size 60 bike fit by using a 70mm stem.

Another way to think of it is that a given bike size can accommodate a pretty large range of fit coordinates - and what you need to do is set up the bike to accommodate your fit coordinates.

However, just because you can make many differently-sized bikes fit doesn't mean you should buy whatever size you get.      Ideally, when you are starting out, you want a bike size where your fit coordinates are NOT at the extreme ranges of what is possible with that bike, because that limits the amount of adjustability you will have in the future.



THE BASICS OF GOOD FIT
 
A good fit is pretty simple-  it is a position where you are sitting comfortably balanced while leaning forwards on the bike, and the handlebars are where your hands would naturally fall.

The key starts with being "comfortably balanced".

If you look at a photo of a Pro Tour cyclist, he is likely in a very aggressively low and stretched out position, with his upper back almost horizontal.   Most likely, you are not going to be able to achieve not - not to start out with, anyway.    For one, most amateur riders - especially beginners - lack the core strength and years of acclimatization to that position that pro riders have achieved.   For another, they likely have a larger layer around the belly than a pro rider, which also affects their ability to get very low.

So you will likely want to be in a more upright position - however, you dont want to be sitting bolt upright either.   Road bikes aren't designed to be ridden with the rider's torso is entirely vertical.     They are designed to be ridden with the rider's torso leaning forwards.   And this position is only comfortable if your torso lean is suitable for your flexibility, core strength and size.

So in essence, a good fit is all about finding a comfortably balanced riding position which lets you pedal efficiently.

If you recall the previous section, this consists of 2 parts:
- Setting saddle height and fore/aft
- Setting the correct handlebar height (stack) and distance (reach)

Let's get into the specifics of how to do so.


SETTING SADDLE POSITION

This is easy.     Put the pedal at 6 o'clock and put your heel on the pedal.    Raise the saddle to such a height that your leg is completely extended when seated in this position (but make sure you dont drop your hip on that side).      Now, when you put your forefoot on the pedal, there should be a small bend of about 20-30 degrees in your leg.    That is the correct saddle height.

As for saddle fore-aft, for now,  adjust the saddle such that when the pedal is at 3 o'clock (pointed forwards), the front of your knee is more or less above the pedal spindle.   This is called "Knee on Pedal" neutral or KOP Neutral.

This used to be a parameter for setting fit in the earlier days but is no longer a valid fit target - in other words, there is nothing inherently good about being KOP neutral or not.    I am just using this as a starting point, not as an end goal.

Also, set the saddle to be perfectly level for now.   You can use an app like Clinometer to do so.     You dont want your saddle to be sloping downwards, as it will push your weight forwards and you will have to support it with your hands.   You don't want your saddle to be sloping too far upwards either, as that will push into your perineum or taint, and cause numbness in an area where no one wants numbness.

With that done for now, let's go to step 2


FINDING THE HANDLEBAR POSITION
,
Now comes the tricky part - setting the handlebar position.       Handlebars have 2 axes of positioning - up and down, which determines how high they are (stack) and forwards/backwards, which determines how much forwards they are (reach).   

Let's talk about what we are trying to achieve here:   when you are in your correct riding position, your upper body, though leaning forwards, is balanced and do not have a lot of your weight supported by your hands.  

In order to achieve this, you need something to counter-balance the forward lean of your torso - and this is your hips.     So when you are in a comfortable riding position, your torso is leaning forwards and your hip is counter-balancing, and when the two are in equilibrium, so are you.

So try leaning forwards right now and find an angle where you are feeling comfortable.  Bend at the hips, dont arch your lower back.   Also, make sure that as you lean forwards, you counter-balance a little with your hips being pushed backwards.

Once you have this position of balance, reach forwards and grab the handlebars.   If the fit is correct, the bars should be where your hands naturally fall .    Your arms should be a little in front of you, and you should feel in control and really balanced on the bike, with minimal weight on the arms:  a little weight is ok - enough to make things comfortable for you, but not enough that you need it to keep your torso in position.  Your arms and shoulders should be relaxed at all times.      

If you feel too stretched out, the handlebars are too far away.   You can try a shorter stem or a different size.     If you feel that you have to bend a bit more in order to comfortably grab the handlebars, and that throws off your balance, the bars are too low - you need to raise them or go with a bigger size bike.   Regardless, you need to fit a setup where the bars are where your hands would naturally fall in that balanced position I talked about.

If possible, ride the bike on a trainer for a short while to make sure that you truly are comfortable even when pedaling.   If not, adjust as described above.  

Once this is done, it is time to do a feedback loop to make minor corrections.

A word:  sometimes, you might find that even across a few sizes, you are struggling to get a good fit on a particular bike.    That is normal.    Some bikes are designed to fit people looking for a low, aggressive fit.   Others are designed to fit people looking for a more upright, relaxed fit.      So make sure that the bike model you are trying is designed for your riding position.   More info on this in Part 2 of the article as well.  


FEEDBACK LOOP

You may find that when you adjust your hips to balance, they move a little further back - if so, you can slide the saddle a little further backwards to accommodate this.    You may also find that while you can bend your torso fairly low and are fairly comfortable in that position, your upper leg is hitting your stomach or you are finding it a little harder to breathe when you are pedaling in that position.   If that is the case, try moving your saddle forwards half a centimeter or so.    This opens up your hip angle and makes it easier to get lower (there is a lot more detail to this stuff, but that is beyond the scope of this article).

When you move your saddle forwards and backwards, you may also need to check the vertical height again (same way as we did earlier).     And you should re-confirm the handlebar position is where you need it to be after doing so.


ENSURING  FLEXIBILITY FOR FURTHER UPGRADES

In a proper fitting bike, the handlebars should be in a position where you could be comfortable if they were just a little bit higher, lower, further or closer - in other words, they should be more or less in the middle of your ideal fit coordinates.     This gives you flexibility to adjust things later, if need be.

So this means ideally a stem which is 100mm in size (or 90-110mm, atleast).    This gives you the option of reducing it down to 70-80mm if you find the reach is too long, or increasing it to 120-130mm if you want a more aggressive position.

Also, if possible, get a fit where you have one or two spacers (10-20mm) under the bar to achieve your ideal fit.   Fit is not static but will change as you ride more, gain core strength, perhaps lose some belly flab, etc.     While experienced riders like having a bike with no spacers below the stem, that is not a good thing for you, as a beginner.   You want the ability to get your bars lower later, if need be - and the easiest way to do this is to remove a spacer or two from underneath.


SUMMARY AND ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS

Keep in mind that this fit guide just lays down some general principles for figuring out bike fit.   Fit is a very personal thing and general principles are no substitute for getting an expert to help you with the fit in person - they will get into a lot more details and nuances than I can explain in a general article.   The bike shops i recommended at the start of the article are shops which I know for a fact will do so correctly (that is not to say these are the only ones who do so... these are just the ones I know and can vouch for).  

The biggest challenge for a beginner getting fitted without an expert providing in-person advice is deciding how to balance a low position (good for going fast) with comfort.   If you set up a bike that is very comfortable when you start out, you may be more upright than needed.     If you set up a bike that is a little uncomfortable, is that something you will adjust to or is that a bad fit?    An expert can answer these questions.

And here are a few additional tips, in no particular order:

- When in doubt, go with a smaller size.   You can make a smaller bike fit longer, but it is much harder to make a too-large bike fit smaller without affecting handling.   Of course, this assumes both the smaller and the larger size can both be made to fit equally well.

-  A good bike shop will spend time with you in setting up the bike so that it fits.    While raising or lowering the handlebars is relatively easy to do by adding or removing spacers under the stem, bringing them closer in or further out may involve changing the stem.   Speak to the bike shop about your options for this - many shops will let you swap a stem, although the cost for this will vary (for an entry level bike, you may have to pay a fee - for a superbike, this is typically done for free).

-  Don't abuse a bike shop's service - go through this fit exercise only when you are serious about buying the bike.       If you just waste their time, you make it harder for the next person to get good service

-  Good fit is a far bigger parameter than obsessing about whether one bike at a specific price point is better than another (see my article on What Bike to Buy).     Buy your bike from the shop that goes through the effort of doing all these things for you, rather than trying to save a few thousand rupees.   An entry-level bike that fits well will be a lot better and faster to ride than a high-end bike that doesn't fit properly.

- A word on how much weight you should have on your hands:   a little weight is ok.    It helps balance you and spreads the load.    However, if your arms were to magically disappear, you should be able to hold yourself upright by engaging your core - if you rely on your hands to prevent your torso from slamming into the handlebars, you have too much weight on the hands.

- Make sure you also try one size up and one size down, to confirm that the size you are trying is indeed optimal.   Sometimes, you may find changing a size can feel different.

- If you are new to road biking, your body will acclimatize to the riding position and you will be able to get lower with time.   So make sure you leave yourself room to get more aggressive - as described above.

- Similarly, if you are feeling a little uncomfortable, that's is ok as well.     Do a few rides and you might find yourself getting used to things.      Of course, if not, you can bring yourself a little more upright - again, this fit guide is designed so that you have the ability to do so.


Remember, fit evolves.     As does a rider's body, as it adapts to cycling.     Your bike setup will evolve as you gain experience.    So to start out with, don't worry about getting it perfect - get it close enough, and then you can always tweak it.     And while this guide will not replace an expert fitter, it should (hopefully) be able to get most people to find a fit that is good enough.

Good luck.   If you have any questions, feel free to ask on the BikesZone Facebook Group.

There is a Part 2 to this guide, getting into a little more technical details and also talking at greater length about bike geometry and how it affects fit. 

Guidelines for buying/selling stuff

So presumably, you are an adult.   You are able to ride your bike outdoors without needing a training wheel.    So really, what I am about to write in the rest of this post should be bleeding obvious, but here we are anyway.

1.  You are responsible for what you buy
Unless you are entirely new to this whole online thing, you should be aware that BikesZone is merely a platform for people to sell their biking stuff - be it dealers or individual sellers.    So this means that any transaction you do is between you and the seller - BikesZone is not involved and BikesZone is not responsible for any screw-ups that happen in the transaction.  Buyer beware & do your due diligence.

2.  Sellers - post full detail
This includes size (if relevant), condition and asking price.  Oh, and obviously a photo  No "contact me for best price" nonsense.   And no auction sales.

3.  Buyers - be efficient and take the discussion directly with the seller
If  you are interested, message the buyer directly.    Don't write "interested" in reply - that is  the most ridiculous response ever.     What, you want a medal for being interested?   If you have questions about the product, its condition, why the buyer is selling, etc, take it up off-line on Messenger, Whatsapp, email or phone.   You do not need to regale the rest of the group with your questions or comments   The only public comment you should be making, at most, is "message sent".    Nothing else.       

4.  Peanut gallery - STFU
If you want to buy the product in question, see point #3.   If you are not planning to buy, STFU.   Don't make daft comments or ask idiotic questions - or if you must, message the seller directly.   And above all, do not price police.     You are not the arbiter of what the "correct price" should be.    If you have that much free time, take a class on economics instead.     'Ware the Ban Hammer.    Tagging a friend who might be interested is fine.

5.  Handling potential fakes or scams
The only exception to points #3 and #4 above is if there is a post that could be a scam or a fake.  In this case, use the "report" function to flag the post and message one of the mods.    Also, in this case, please write "flagged" in reply.   Just that, and nothing else.   Do not post why you think it is a fake, why you think it is a scam or whatever.    Mods will help resolve this - they will either delete the post, add a warning or delete the "flagged" comment.   This is the only time it is ok for someone to post something other than "PM sent" to a post.

Clear enough?     Follow these rules, don't be annoying and don't worsen the S/N ratio of the group.    A paceline works best when everyone is doing their part and being disciplined.     Internet groups work the same way.

Posting guidelines for commercial dealers

The rules of the group don't have enough space to explain the guidelines for commercial dealers, so here is an expanded post on the subject.

To start with, realize that this is a non commercial group.   I have zero interest in making money off it or even gaining any kind of fame.     I made some great cycling friends in BZ, and i am hoping that the spirit of that community will continue here - that is the sole purpose of creating this group. 

That said, we are all cyclists and we all tend to have a fascination with things that are laterally stiff, vertically compliant and cost absurd amounts of money for minimal tangible benefits.  

So some commercial posts are welcome here but conditions apply. 


So start with, it is ok to post special deals and sales on an occasional basis.   So for example, if you are having a special sale or clearance on something, feel free to post it here.    However, this group is not a captive audience that exists for you to market your products.    So don't spam the group with whatever you have for sale.   If your only contribution is going to be posting frequent ads, you are not going to be in this group for long.

So how much is too much?    The mods and admins decide.     Dealers that contribute to the forum with more than just for-sale posts will get more of a leeway.       Dealers that have a documented history of being pillars of the cycling community will get more of a leeway.     How much more?    The mods and admins decide, and you don't have to like it (and quite likely, if you are in a position where this question is relevant, odds are good that you won't like it).    So if in doubt, ask one of the admins or mods.

Second, disclose your commercial interest on any items related to sales/gear.   This is especially true if you are going to reply to a question involving gear with a sales pitch.      So:
- No sneaky marketing where you pretend to help but are in effect trying to make a sale.
- If you ask the poster to contact you for details, make it clear that you are a commercial dealer in the post.   
- If you ask the poster to contact someone else for details, clarify if that other person is a dealer and what business arrangement you have with him.     
- If you say Brand X is better than Brand Y, you better indicate if you are a dealer of Brand X

In short, on any discussion involving gear, where you may have a commercial interest, please disclose this.    If you violate this, the Ban Hammer shall descend upon you swiftly and mercilessly.

If you privately write to people trying to drum up sales, that will be weighed against your other contributions to the group.   If you are contributing to the community in other ways, you get some slack.   If all you do is try to make sales, the Ban Hammer shall descend upon you as well.
 
As always, if you have special deals for BikesZone members, and a proven history of record of integrity and service, you get more leeway.   The admins and mods get to decide how much.   

If you aren't sure about whether you should or shouldn't do anything - please ask first.
 
Basically - be open/honest in your dealings and try to give back to the community as well.

Surviving BikesZone and BikesZone Reborn

There is going to be a bit of nostalgia here, so bear with me.  The original BikesZone was emphatically not for everyone - neither is BikesZone Reborn.  This post should give you a bit of an idea what to expect.

Many years ago, I remember someone once accused Bikeszone of being nothing but a "boy's club".   The context was that one poster had asked for advice to remedy his knees hurting after every ride, and was consistently arguing against every single bit of (correct) advice he had was getting.    I remember losing it and telling him to just live with wrecked knees if he wasn't going to listen, which is what provoked this statement of judgement.   Ironically, I was then -and am now - good friends with the rider who had the knee issues (and my snarky response then was intended to jolt him into paying attention).

But fair play - BikesZone original did have an element of dog-eat-dog.     Most of the regulars there were cyclists of varying abilities and interests - but all of us rode regularly, be it to ride fast or count butterflies or whatever.   People had opinions, other people had different opinions and there would be some spirited debates which would get very heated.

BUT:  for starters, the discussions were usually fact/logic driven.     And even when it got heated, everyone was mature enough to keep the disagreement limited to the subject at hand.     I think over time, pretty much all the regulars got into some cycling-related argument or the other - and yet we all managed to remain friends.    There were a couple of meet-ups in Pune and elsewhere (remember - this was the early days of cycling in India and the cycling community was very small:  back in those days, MTBs were de rigueur and it was believed that road bikes would assplode on Indian roads), and a good time was had by all.    That laid the foundation and culture for the group.

Second - because of a culture of fact/logic driven discussion and a focus on actually riding the damn bicycle, as opposed to just talking about all things cycling, the group had a very low tolerance for BS and pretentiousness.     If you wanted to ride your bike, everyone would cheer you on regardless of ability.   If you came in and acted as if your 30 min ride was going to solve global warming, poverty or whatever, you would be challenged very directly and with an abundance of snark.    And heaven help if you were not able to mount an intelligent defense but doubled down on BS.

This was a culture shock to a lot of people.   Some learned from the first misstep and thrived - remember:  it is never personal unless you make it so.     Others got (somewhat justifiably) upset at the reception and either left in a huff, or kept digging their hole deeper, which never ended well for them and resulted in them leaving in a huff.      Which was a shame, because there was a lot of useful information there - and for people looking for help but willing to put in some effort themselves, it was a great resource.

BikesZone Reborn kinda works the same way.    Everyone here likes cycling and beginners are welcomed:  you dont need to have a fancy bike or a huge budget or whatever.      Dont worry about that kind of stuff - if you like cycling (as opposed to merely wanted to be a part of Cycling Culture without actually doing any cycling), you'll fit right in.

That is an important distinction.

People who like cycling enjoy the act of getting on their velocipede and riding it, for the pleasure of riding it.     Whether it is a fast sufferfest, a relaxed scenic ride, some crazy MTB stuff or even triathlons (even though that is a violation of The Rules), the main thing is that these people make an active choice to ride their bicycle.

People who want to be a part of Cycling Culture love talking about cycling.   They share cycling related memes.   They ask questions like "why cant Indian cities be more like Amsterdam".   They are Ambassadors of Cycling.    There is nothing wrong with that.    However, if that is your main interest in cycling, this may not be the correct forum for you.

That is not to say cycling activism is bad.   But activism actually requires effort.    Genuine activism - trying to implement some realistic actionable policy - is welcome but do expect critical questioning.   Hand-wring and pie-in-the-sky nonsense is not.  If all you are doing is just forwarding memes and whinging on a cycling forum, you aren't an activist but a wanna-be.    If you do stuff like "I rode from Point A to Point B to raise awareness for XYZ", you better be able to quantify exactly how your bike ride made a difference - otherwise you will (rightly) be labelled a pretentious jackass and mocked.

So yeah, this isn't necessarily a safe space where you can spew whatever nonsense you want and as long as it sounds warm and fuzzy, people will cheer you.

Lastly, go easy with  forwarding memes, jokes and post shares.    This is a cycling community, not a stand-up comedy theater, and you are neither a clown nor a comic (well not intentionally, anyway).    The general rule to ask is - is my post going to generate productive discussion or provide something of value to the group?    If the answer is "no", it is better to avoid posting.   Remember - we have a very large community here, and maintaining a high signal/noise ratio is important.

Just remember: as with any online community, there is an existing culture in place.    Get a sense of it.   Ask questions.   Contribute.    Argue (sensibly and rationally).    As with any other group, the more others get to know you, the more leeway you get to be a jackass (that's why I am 99% Jackass - I worked hard to achieve this).   And then you'll realize what made BZ so amazing   :)

Also:  the mods arent getting paid for this.   They would also like to be cycling or engaging in cycling discussion, not settling petty feuds between others.    And nor are we sitting down and setting up extensive operational guidelines on how to moderate the group.  So expect moderator decisions to be swift,  capricious and highly dependent on the person doing the moderating.   Sounds horrible, doesn't it?    I agree - so best to avoid doing stuff that gets them involved.

Remember - hardly anyone here is elite.   We are a wide group of people, all united by the fact that we live cycling.   So there are going to be different opinions, views, beliefs, etc.    Be respectful, rely on logic/reasoning and don't take yourself too seriously.

And if this entire post appalls you and makes you write angry posts on social media, then it is a good bet that you may want to find other groups or forums.

What bicycle should I get?

[Many years ago, I had written a series of FAQs for BikesZone - have decided to update them and put them up here]

This is one of the most common questions people ask on cycling forums.     Typically, it goes "I have Rs XXX to spend, what bike should I get".      The thing is, there is no real answer to this - pretty much any bike in that price range is a candidate.

Think about it.   If one bike was universally better than all the others, why would anyone buy the others?

So the first thing to understand is:   there is no Best Bike.   It Does. Not. Exist.

This is true for any budget.     Bikes have many characteristics - weight, handling, responsiveness, comfort, aerodynamics, shock absorption, groupset, wheels, etc.      So two bikes at any given point will be slightly different in each of these areas.   So which is better?    Adding to the complication - those difference will be very minor and also hard to quantify - hell, some riders may not even notice those differences.      And remember that this holds true even so more so at a budget, where most bikes are made to a price point using pretty standardized technology - so the differences are even lesser.  Ponder on this point and take it to heart.  

The second thing to understand that is:   very people have in-depth experience with many different models.   So if you ask whether "Brand X Model A" is better than "Brand Y Model B" - odds are that very few people will have tried them out.     You will get a lot of replies which are essentially confirmation bias ("I have Brand X, I like it, so I will recommend it").    You will also get other replies which basically focus on one aspect - maybe wheels, or overall weight or something: "Brand Y has better wheels/is lighter and so is better".   Except you dont ride just wheels - you ride the entire bike.   So you have to evaluate the type of bike that you need.

Before we start, lets understand the main bike types.

MOUNTAIN BIKES
These are the big burly machines designed for off-road riding.   They have disc brakes, they have front (and often rear) suspension and they just look bad-ass.     They even have bad-ass names like Sultan, Leviathan and such.   But they are also heavy and not very efficient to ride on roads - the suspension and fat tires both rob you of a lot of speed.     They are great for riding on technical off-roads and not so good for riding on the road.

Within the MTB category, there are different types as well:   XC (cross country),  enduro/all-mountain, trail and downhill.     These categories generally represent a greater level of difficulty/roughness of terrain and also greater suspension/sturdiness/weight/cost.    


ROAD BIKES
These are the light, purposeful bikes designed for being ridden on roads (yes, even Indian roads) in a fast and efficient manner.     They typically have drop bars, which allow the rider to get lower (and so faster, due to better aerodynamics) and also offer more hand positions, for greater comfort.   They typically come with thinner tires, designed for speed.     

However, not all road bikes are meant for racing.    This category covers a wide range of bikes, all designed for riding on the road and includes:
- Race specific bikes, which ARE designed purely for going as fast as possible and are very responsive in how they handle
- Sportive/Endurance bikes, which are similar but offer a slightly more upright sitting position for a better mix of speed, comfort and stability.   They typically also offer more practical features like ability to add fenders (rain protection) and even racks/panniers (for carrying some cargo), and so can be used for more than just riding fast
- Gravel bikes, which are similar to endurance bikes but have some design tweaks which improve stability and which also allow you to fit fatter tires for taking the bike off tarmac onto gravel trails and such.

HYBRIDS
These are the crossovers of the bike world - they have the flat bars of the MTB world, making it easier to sit upright for all ages and fitness abilities and also skinnier tires than MTBs (although not as thin as those on road bikes), making them fairly efficient and light to ride on tarmac.   Hybrids may also have a front suspension - this is usually lighter/less burly than an MTB suspension and designed to take the edge of  riding on the road.   They usually also have the ability to take racks and fenders, increasing their practicality for commuting, touring, etc.

So in many ways, they combine the best elements from both categories to come up with a feature set that is practical and works well for a wide range of uses.   While they are not the most exciting of bikes, for most cyclists, they are in fact the ideal bike for a lot of people..

So which of these bikes do you want?

STEP 1:   FIGURE OUT YOUR NEEDS
You want an MTB, don't you?    After all, the roads where you live are really bad, and you need suspension and disc brakes as well. right?    Wrong.   You don't. 

For starters, most of us ride in areas where the roads aren't great.    I am 82kg and ride my expensive, lightweight carbon wheels everywhere.    Not had an issue yet.      Look up videos of pros riding Paris Roubaix cobbles on lightweight carbon race bikes, at speeds far greater than you or I will ever touch.      So unless you actually plan to ride the bike extensively on trails, you do not need an MTB.    The only exception would be if you are over 100kg or so in size and on a very tight budget - in that case, yes, a MTB may be your best option.

But for everyone else, you'd be better served by either a hybrid or a road bike, depending on your use case.   But how do you decide between a hybrid or road bike - and which type of road bike do you go for?

If you are starting out, you probably don't even know what you want.    You want a bike that can do everything: you want something you can ride for fitness.   You want something that can go fast.   You want something that you can go "offroading on weekends".      Sound familiar?

News flash - for one, you probably won't be doing all those things.    Second, the more things you want to be able to do with your bike, the more you are adding to the cost.   Thirdly, many of these requirements are contradictory - so in trying to get something which checks all the boxes, you will end up with something that doesn't do anything properly.    So be honest.    Do you want a bike just to ride around a little and enjoy a little exercise?    Do you want to get into road riding and ride fast or long distances?    Do you want to go explore the dirt trails?     Do you want to commute?   Pick the most important use case and get something optimized for that.  

I repeat - try to get a bike that tries to do everything, and you will end up with a bike that does nothing well.

Also, many people want to get into cycling to improve their fitness - well, any cycle will do that job.    It is the effort that burns calories, not the bicycle.     While the type of bicycle under you will not change the calorie burn, it will, however, change your riding experience.     So when picking a bike, think about what you want out of your pedaling experience.

STEP 2:  WHAT FEATURES/BIKE TYPE DO YOU NEED?

Let's talk about various features of bikes and the effect they have on your ride experience:

1)  Riding Position:    One of the biggest, and most impactful, differences between bikes is riding position.    Hybrids tend to put you in a very upright seated stance.   Road bikes tend to put you in a lower stance.      However, do note that road bikes cover a very wide range of riding stances.   Aggressive race bikes will put you very low.   Endurance bikes will put you in a fairly comfortable position which is intended for riding long distance (a couple of hundred kilometers).    So don't automatically assume that road bikes are uncomfortable - you just need to find a model that has a riding position that fits you.   A properly fitted road bike is comfortable for 6-7 hours on the saddle!

The best way to figure out riding position is to go to a bike shop and sit on some bikes - and maybe even take them for a short spin, if the bike shop allows.  

2)  Tire Width - most of your comfort comes from tires.   A modern race-oriented road bike will take tires up to 28 mm (often 30mm).       A sportive/endurance oriented road bike can go up to 32mm (and sometimes a bit higher, and allows a slightly more upright seating position, which many beginners find more comfortable.      Gravel bikes allow much thicker tires - which is great for trails and broken roads, but often you pay a small weight penalty for this.       

So based on your usage, pick a bike which allows you to fit appropriately sized tires.   Typically, 32mm is more than enough for most tarmac, no matter how bad.     For more comfort, you could go with thicker tires, but that will have an effect on your speed.        If you plan to ride off-road, then you may need wider tires up to 40mm (and often, people keep 2 wheelsets - one for riding on tarmac and one for riding off road).

 Lastly remember:  treads dont serve any purpose on tarmac.  Slick tires provide the best grip and speed on tarmac.   Treads are useful off-road, however.

3)  Suspension -  if you are going to be doing a lot of offroading over technical terrain, by all means get a MTB with good suspension (and plan to pay > Rs 35k or more for a good front-suspension bike aka hardtail, and closer to Rs 75k and above for a full suspension).    Like cheap disc brakes, cheap suspension forks are nearly useless and cause your bike to bob and lose efficiency.   For roads - thicker tires run at lower pressures, and slowing down a little for potholes is a far more efficient solution than suspension.     That said, if you do want some suspension, a hybrid with suspension may be a good option - but expect to pay more for this, in order to get quality that actually works.   Remember - it is better to not have any suspension than to have crappy suspension.   Seriously.

4) Disc brakes - Disc brakes provide a lot of benefits on road bikes:  they provide great grip in the rain, they are fantastic on long descents and they allow use of wider tires/rims, which bring technical benefits to road bikes.   However, they do add cost and complexity, and so getting quality is very important.    And keep some perspective:  rim brakes provide more than enough stopping power for all the typical conditions you will be riding your bike in.    Road cyclists - even pros cycling at 50kph - have used them for decades without issues.

Hydraulic disc brakes are great.   Higher end mechanical disc brakes are decent.   Cheap mechanical disc brakes are crappy - they are a pain in the ass to maintain, don't offer any braking advantage over rim brakes and just add weight.    While there are a lot of reasons to get disc brakes on road bikes, as mentioned in the previous paragraph, you need to have a budget of Rs 75,000 or more for (approximately) for those reasons to be valid.   For lesser expensive road bikes or for hybrids, you will get better performance with rim brakes - remember, these are BIcycles, not MOTORcycles. 

5) Practicality -  if you plan to use the bike for long, leisurely rides, or for commuting, or for riding in bad weather, you need to pay attention to things like ability to mount racks (for carrying cargo), fenders (for rain protection), kickstand, etc.    Race bikes dont accommodate any of them, incidentally.     Some endurance road bikes may have options for fenders and racks, but rarely kick stands (those things are dangerous in group rides).   Hybrids generally allow fenders, racks and kickstands.

6)  Gearing:   if you are riding mostly in flats, you dont need a lot of gearing.   With hills, flyovers, etc, gearing is a god-sent.    But keep in mind - gears add the most complexity (and cost) to a bike.    If you want reliable gearing, you will need to spend more.    Also, the number of gears on a bike doesn't really make a difference in how easy it is to climb a hill - what it mostly changes is the gap between gears. 

7) Material:  this is an area where there is a lot of debate.   Carbon fiber is the material of choice for race bikes - it is light, stiff and can be shaped as needed for aerodynamics and ride quality.    It is also expensive.     Steel is heavier, but has a springy, comfortable ride quality that a lot of people enjoy - although quality of steel makes a huge difference in these areas.     Titanium is similar to steel in ride quality, but is a bit lighter & not prone to corrosion.    And lastly, aluminium is the material of choice in entry-level frames:   it is stiff and responsive, but not as smooth/comfortable as the other materials - although to be clear, these are just broad attributes and not universal truths:  things like choice of materials, tube shaping, etc. all play a role in determining ride quality.   Hell, even changing your tire or tire pressure will make a bigger difference in ride comfort than Al vs carbon.  

Earlier, the recommendation used to "high end Al is better than cheap carbon".  I don't think that is true these days and if you are getting a road bike for tarmac use, I do recommend getting carbon fiber if your budget allows.   It IS going to be a fair bit more expensive, but the ride quality is worth it.       At prices of under 1L, you are going to be riding Al, for most the part.     But don't fret - while carbon fiber may be better, you can get some really good bikes in Al as well that give you 99% of the performance of the carbon fiber bikes for a lot less.

For hybrids, you are likely going to be limited to steel or Al (in fact, i dont think there are too many options in carbon fiber among hybrids)  - for their intended use, this gives you a bike that is more reliable and less prone to damage from accidental knocks and falls.   


STEP 3:   BUDGET
So you want a bike that does it all.   And you only want to pay Rs 20k for it.     Newsflash-  aint gonna happen.    Bikes are high-tech pieces of machinery - high end bikes can cross 7 lakhs in price.   Now obviously, you don't need to spend anywhere close to that, but you also need to accept that at the budget end (under a lakh, let's say), you very much get what you pay for.  Light, reliable, cheap -- you can only pick 2.

So really think about your budget.     Yes, we'd all like to get a super-fast ultra-light carbon race bike for Rs 20k, but that doesn't happen.   At some point, you have to either up your budget, change your requirements or accept that you will get a crappy bike.      How much does your phone cost and how often do you change it?   By comparison, a bike will last you much longer, improve your fitness, bring you pleasure

 As a general indication, here are some suggested price points:
- Under Rs 20k:  single speed urban commuter bike.     In this budget, disc brakes, suspension and gears are going to crappy and not worth the weight or hassle of maintenance.   
- Rs 25-35k: geared hybrid
- Rs 50k and above:   road bike

In each of the cases, going on the higher end of the budget scale will give you a better bike - one that requires less maintenance and more fun/responsive to ride.    This is especially true of road bike, all the way up to around Rs 1.5 lakhs - after which the point of diminishing returns starts to set it.

In the long run, it is cheaper to buy the Right Bike once, even if means paying extra, as opposed to buying a bike with a lot of compromises, having a lousy experience with it and then buying the Right Bike the second time around (or third/fourth time, depending on how long it takes you to learn this lesson).


THE ACTUAL PROCESS OF BUYING

So now you have a realistic budget and know what type of bike you want.    What do you do next?

If you are a beginner, it is important that you get a bike that fits you well.     So go to a good local bike shop (LBS):   Wheelsport, Crankmeister. Pro Bikers, Happy Eath, BOTS and more.     They will help you find a bike that fits you correctly.   And for the record, there is more to a good fit than simply standing over a bike and making sure there is space between the top tube and your crotch - so sit on the bike and make sure it feels comfortable.

Check out 2 or 3 models in your price range.   Also check out what you get if you go one step above or one step below that model (you may find the difference worthwhile).     Typically, you may find one bike feels a lot better than others - if so, that's your bike.

If you cannot decide - buy from the bike shop that has given you the best service.    They will be your go-to resource for more accessories, upgrade, repairs, etc.    So build the relationship.

And if you still cannot decide - buy the best looking bike (really, this is my most important factor - i will not buy a bike if i dont like its color).   A bike that gets your heart thumping faster is a bike that you will want to ride more.    And THAT is the most important thing, as opposed to measurbating over insignificant differences between individual components or framesets or whatever.

Good luck.   If you have any questions, feel free to ask on the BikesZone Facebook Group.